Directions: Please watch the video. In your blog response, please explore the following questions: Who do you think won the argument? What examples and insights won you over. Did you see any missteps? Remember, you may personally disagree; you are looking at the examples and techniques used to make the argument. Next, can you think of any Austen or Bronte points you would like to make? What scenes would you like to read aloud and perform while making your argument?
Tuesday, April 23, 2019
Due Monday, April 29th - Emily Bronte vs. Jane Austen
Overview: Our final project for this unit will be an open debate between Team Bronte and Team Austen. We will watch an actual literary debate and use it as a model for our class project.
Directions: Please watch the video. In your blog response, please explore the following questions: Who do you think won the argument? What examples and insights won you over. Did you see any missteps? Remember, you may personally disagree; you are looking at the examples and techniques used to make the argument. Next, can you think of any Austen or Bronte points you would like to make? What scenes would you like to read aloud and perform while making your argument?
Directions: Please watch the video. In your blog response, please explore the following questions: Who do you think won the argument? What examples and insights won you over. Did you see any missteps? Remember, you may personally disagree; you are looking at the examples and techniques used to make the argument. Next, can you think of any Austen or Bronte points you would like to make? What scenes would you like to read aloud and perform while making your argument?
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They're all reading different examples from various texts, and giving examples of each author's techniques. However, I will put more emphasis on what Jane Austen and the Bronte Sisters have in common. They agree more than they disagree, and there's no valid reason to point them at one another as combatants.
ReplyDeleteWhatever strategies might be in use, I smell ill sportsmanship a long way off. I must place a nonaggression pact between Jane Austen and the Bronte Sisters immediately!
DeleteI think Jane Austen paved the way for the Bronte Sisters. It just doesn't look like it because Jane Austen's works were first disclosed to be written by a lady, whereas the Bronte Sisters posed as "The Bell Brothers." But apart from that, they had similar motivations. They had roughly the same importance, too. This Austen-Bronte war is really invalid and I'm not going to stand for it!
DeleteI'm just going to support Jane Austen and the Bronte Sisters without preference, and that's final!
DeleteHaywood
DeleteI agree that they are both very good. But I feel like everyone has to like one or the other right?
I prefer to unite one and all.
DeleteI think that the Austen side won personally. I believe that peoples emotions have a big impact on their decision making. One thing that the Austen side played on a lot was the comedic side of the books. THis in turn made the audience laugh a lot and with laughter comes happiness most of the time. And I think that if people can relate happiness to something they might be more biased towards that. One thing I think that the Bronte side did wrong was at the start she sort of admitted defeat and said she was thought the debate could be over which shows might seem like a lack of faith in her material or her book.
ReplyDeleteIn that case, the Austen side has to make postwar reparations to the Bronte side!
DeleteYeah I agree, she complimented Jane Austen too much which made her argument weaker.
DeleteYea she needed to hold her side more and not back down. As soon as she got up she said "Wow how am I supposed to follow that up."
Delete^Haywood
DeleteI agree with how admitting defeat at the start was bad even if it was a joke. If you can't convince yourself how can you convince others? Giving into some of the opposing arguments is good if counterarguments were to be made but starting off like that is bad in my opinion.
DeleteI think that the Austen side won the argument. Not only did he have good points but I felt that he interacted with the audience more and was more enthusiastic. He also made people laugh which is a great seller. However his arguments were also very good as well as the pieces of Austen novels he chose for the actors to read. I liked the bit about the piano especially. He said “It is so simple but it is so complicated” and this is very true. The piano, which I never thought about until this video, is a very important piece in each novel. The piano is part of Anne Elliot's fate he says, and in “Pride and Prejudice”, I think it is, for the girls, something to attract men and show off their skills. So in Austen’s novels there are a lot of small things that you may not pick up on the first time you read it. This also makes it a good book to read multiple times which is a very good ‘selling point’ for the book. I also have to say, though, that I feel like the lady that argued for the Bronte sisters did a good job at pointing out that Emily Bronte went past the happy marriage and showed what life was like after marriage and showed the not-so-happy endings. However I think she summarized the book too much and didn’t make a lot of arguments for the book. But both sides did a great job, I just think the Austen side won.
ReplyDeleteHaywood
ReplyDeleteI think the Austen argument was SIGNIFICANTLY better. The scenes that were shown were just so perfectly preformed and had the right mix of humor and love. The Bronte argument was only lovey dovey stuff. Which, I mean, isn't a bad thing. But because of the readings chosen by the man arguing for Austen we gotta see a wider range of writing ability from Austen. But I don't think the person arguing for Bronte chose the right quotes. And I don't know if she needed humor. She just needed something more powerful than the stuff she chose. Mr. P said something in class which I really agreed with. He said that as soon as he read the passage, or maybe it was even just a line, from pride and prejudice he immediately discovered the type of character Mr. Bennett was and he immediately saw the whole marriage. I think a couple of points could have been made. For instance, I think Austen is more interesting to read because she has multiple people trying to get married at the some time. For instance in Pride and Prejudice she is getting Elizabeth with Darcy and Jane with Bingly. And then there is the crazy relationship with Lydia and Wickham. There is constantly so so much going on and it makes it a lot more interesting.
I believe that the Austen side won this debate. They acted out several scenes that go along well with what they were trying to inform us of, and overall gave the audience a beautiful rendition of the novel as a whole. They were also very consistent in their presentation manner so that I also enjoyed the Austen side of the debate significantly more than the Bronte side. Also like what Haywood wrote, the Bronte side seems rather more of the love part, but the Austen side presented a wider range of material, really exhibiting Austen's prowess.
ReplyDeleteSimilar to several people, I also think the Austen side won. For me, the biggest thing that won me over was the humor that made the debate far more interesting and engaged the audience more. I think in terms of information, both debaters did really well to build on top of their arguments as well as using precise moments in the books that strongly supported them. In terms of Austen, he did a spectacular job of picking the comical moments to support his argument that Austen is the better writer due to her wit, which I agree with. I thought this point really made Austen more unique than other writers. On the Bronte side, I thought it was based heavily on information. All of the scenes she picked were all serious and dark. For me it was the light and humorous Austen that beat the somber Bronte.
ReplyDeleterather than dark I thought the Bronte lady took a more emotion root because though Wuthering height has comedy some times it is not that type of book.
DeleteJane Austen was always describing things for which she had no patience, so in her own way, she was rather hard-boiled too.
DeleteI said "hard-boiled" and meant sensitive. My mistake.
DeleteAh Austen. As many would suspect if they noticed any point I have ever made in discussion, I am a severe Austen fan. If I wasn't so broke, I would be in the Austen Society. And while I am most definitely biased, the Austen side just seemed so much more persuasive. The man who fought for Austen (whose name I cannot recall well but would become my best friend if I were ever to meet him undoubtedly) has better voice and passionate reasoning accompanying his examples. He can grasp examples from anything, as he immediately references the piano scene from Persuasion when the Emily Bronte advocate writes off the piano from Emma. He is able to explain so well what Austen does in her writing. I believe Austen is what the people need. Bronte does have a melancholy tone usually that does seem a bit more realistic than the happy endings of Austen, but it is still so strong. No one wants a sad ending. In sad times, you want to read about happiness. In happy times, you want to read about happiness. She is witty, and so femme without all the dreary rains of Bronte.
ReplyDeleteJane Austen wasn't entirely happy herself. She was pointing out thing for which she didn't have any patience.
DeleteI feel that the Austen side won this debate. The speaker pointed out things that Austen does well such as her word choice and voice. He was able to take just a few lines and heavily analyze and explain to the audience why her writing is so excellent. Not only does he does a good job with reasoning, he also keep the audience more engaged. He moves around and uses gestures to communicate his point. He adds in a little bit of side commentary and humor which makes a slightly boring topic a lot more interesting to listen to. I think that the question on the number of movies also show which book is better. If Austen’s books can be taken and modified in films more than Bronte’s books it shows the higher potential of the book. A boring book leaves less motivation and inspiration for the reader.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do enjoy both Austen’s and the Bronte’s works, I think that the Brontes won this argument. Yes I know, I did vote for Jane Austen in the beginning but when I was watching this argument, I felt more driven towards the Brontes. When Kate Mosses used Wuthering Heights as her example, she went in depth of how the novel targetted taboo and controversial social issues that were happening in Emily’s time and surprisingly, we as readers can relate to a lot of these issues. These issues were focused on race, class, sexism, and other topics that were not of the social norm. But what really struck me in this argument was when Kate mentioned the main characters of the novel, Catherine and Heathcliff, and how their emotions and love for each other were able to be displayed in the most authentic way possible in a way that wasn’t displayed between Jane Austen’s couple characters, such as Elizabeth and Darcy from Pride and Prejudice or Anne Elliot and Captain Fredrick Wentworth from Persuasion. In Jane Austen’s writing, I do feel that a lot of her stories focus more on the positive portrayals of how love is supposed to be, which becomes more a comedy, and there’s nothing with that. From time to time, I do enjoy how very lighthearted and playful her stories it can be. But in Wuthering Heights, there’s more complication within the storyline, which makes it better. There’s the love between Catherine and Heathcliff that in society back then wasn’t acceptable by any means, in terms of them being an interracial couple and their difference in class. So in short, I thought that the Brontes’ win on this one.
ReplyDeleteI think the Austen side won the debate. Not only did he present good points, but he also surveyed her work and didn’t only focus on Pride and Prejudice. I feel as though that Emily Brontë didn’t have much to work with other than Wuthering Heights and her collections of poems. Austen obviously had an advanced and personal style of writing that makes her work rich and interesting to read. I thought it was interesting that Austen doesn’t use “He/she said _____,” because the dialogue is so well developed, you can literally hear it in the intended voice. I think this contributes to the prenotion that you think the book is going to be a difficult read, but it really isn’t because the tone and the characters are laid out for you from the star. I also agree with Allison’s outlook of how Emily’s writing is so dreary, and that people would rather read happy endings. And I think Izzy is right that the Emily side was obviously based on a lot of information, while Austen’s argument was based on analyzation and psycology. While people can have their personal preference, I think from an academic standpoint, Austen is the obvious choice because of her way of conveying tone and developments through little description and witty narratives.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the Austen side won the debate. The use of humor that many people have brought up here was definitely a driving force behind the effectiveness of his argument, but there was also a significant amount of varied information to support his thoughts. He talked about many different aspects of Austen’s stories, not just love and marriage which is what the novels seem like they are all about, but also the parts of her novels that have a much deeper meaning than what they appear on the surface. It really stuck with me when he said “It is so simple but it is so complicated” because that is part of the joy of reading Austen’s works. You can read and reread her books over and over again and each time that you read it, you learn something else, and it becomes an entirely different book, yet the same as is was before. The simple yet complex quality of her books also makes you understand some underlying concepts that are not necessarily immediately apparent, but rather alluded to. Austen included some social commentary in a very subtle way, not an overt one, and this commentary makes the novels even more interesting to read multiple times. However, I do feel that her happy endings are not realistic, unlike those of Emily Bronte, which show the issues after marriage and how life is not a happily ever after. But the Bronte side just seemed like interesting, a lot of summarizing, and seemed too sad and serious at times as opposed to the argument on behalf of Austen.
ReplyDeleteI think that the Austen side won the argument because when they acted out they used a greater sense of humor, which at this point everyone knows I appreciate deeply. Also, the Bronte side was more-so using love in their scenes, and their advocates seemed to be fans of romantic stories, which is far from me. I love humor more than anything in the world, so I might be a little biased, but the humor in the acted scenes of Jane Austen immediately won me over. Also, I did enjoy the Jane Austen books a little more than the Bronte, as I feel as if the Bronte books had less of a storyline and tried to hard to be too dramatic, while Jane Austen's books had an intracite, well developed storyline. To me, it looks as if Jane Austen might have inspired the Bronte sisters.
ReplyDeleteShe paved the way for them, certainly.
DeleteThat's why having a war between them doesn't make sense.
DeletePersonally, I believe that the Bronte side won this argument. Both points had very strong cases; the Austen side playing the point that the true potency of the novel lied in the easily woven and comprehensive plot while the Bronte side argued that their sophistication is what gave it the chip above. I think that Jane Austen possessed a better sensitivity of her audience, shown in her classics and her use of humor. Jane Austen was also very sophisticated, as observable by her novels like Lady Susan, and her rich characters like Elizabeth and even Mr. Hurst. Although all of these points stand for fierce rhetoric against Bronte, Emily Bronte's true victory comes in with her advanced understanding of the human psyche and the perception of love and hate; the two greatest contrasts in our spectrum of emotion. This is expressed not only in Wuthering Heights, but also in her extensive amounts of poetry which absolutely confounded me. The poetry is the only other volume that I consider at the same amounts of comprehension of emotions as Shakespeare and Goethe. The novelist on the Bronte side made one of the greatest arguments I've ever heard using Emily's examples of love and hate, the colorful juxtaposition of the two. That is why I believe the authoress for team Bronte won the argument.
ReplyDeleteAnd if I can't stick a nonaggression pact between them, my name isn't Owen Williams.
DeleteBetween allies, there are no arguments, only competition for the purpose of playful sport.
DeleteI agreed with austens side it made more sense to me and I liked the humor he had it kept me more engaged with the video. While I really like the pieces is the wuthering heights, she picked out and some of her points were good. I felt Austen side was more confident and had the better agument. It made me agree with more of their points because they were well explained and easy to understand. Also at one point I feel they were making the same point that their book can be read over and over and also seem different. My favorite point was about in austen how with simplest of word could make such a different make you think with the character like you are in their mind. I feel bronte though had an unfair disadvantage as she had not written alot of books like Austen. Overall I really enjoyed the agrument and I am excited to do it in class.
ReplyDeleteI think Austen won because the women who was arguing for Bronte seemed to also argue for Austen. Every time she tried to dispute a point made by the man arguing for Austen she conceded that it was somewhat true. Austen's team made not only the better argument for why Austen was better, but also was able to make the offensive points on Bronte's incompetence. My favorite part was how Austen's man was able to make really good points about Austen's brilliance and then say only a sentence to slyly making a joke about how bad Bronte is. The debate did make me think of why some may consider Bronte better, so although I stay with my opinion that Austen is better I now understand Ethan Gasse's stupid opinion. #teamausten
ReplyDeleteI think the Austen argument was the more convincing one of the two. I liked both of these books with each of them having their own unique characteristics. Austen had used a lot more humor in her books compared to Emily Bronte, but Emily had more of a romantic side to her books. The person supporting Austen had an advantage being able to work with the fact that Austen used humor in her books because more people are pleased with it than most other things. There is a lower chance for a person to like romance more than anything else and therefore the woman supporting Emily had a more difficult chance of convincing people that Emily was better. Also, the man who supported Austen used his examples very well. When he gave his example from Pride and Prejudice of the opening scene with Mr. Bennet and Mrs. Bennet, he emphasized the point that this was from the very start of the book which had people thinking that Austen used this type of writing throughout the entire book. I think the arguments would win over anyone based on their taste but the Austen argument would win over such a large amount of people that the Bronte argument can't compete with.
ReplyDeleteI believe the argument for Jane Austen as the better novelist persuaded me more. I think this because the Austen side drew in the audience more by displaying the humor and literary genius in her novels. Austen was one of the foremost known woman to be independent and share her knowledge through writing. This was something women did NOT do at the time and those who did were out-casts from society. I think that because Jane lived before the Bronte sisters, the Bronte's could have learned from and been inspired by her. The debate arguments from Austen's side which won me over was how she was one of the first in the feminist literature movement. I also think that her novels dive deeper into the issue of marrying up in social class. I think she shows that people should marry for true love rather than simply marrying to better your life and social standing. The latter may end up costing couples their happiness later in life because you are not marrying someone who you love for who they are as a person. After watching this video I would like to make the point that Austen's writings are understood by and appeal to all women. I think she was extremely ahead of her time; being a woman who spoke out against traditional English values such as fixed society, manners, and social class barriers. The first sentence of Austen's Pride and Prejudice is one of the greatest in English literature and I would like to read that quote because it foreshadows the plot of the novel. I also want to talk about Austen's accomplishments and genius with little to no special education.
ReplyDeleteWho won the argument? - I honestly don't know, they both have unique aspects that make them their own writers - but... Austen had a more convincing argument. Personally, I think Bronte has a more intriguing plot line and story arch while the character development in Austen is superior, therefore making Austen an easier read.
ReplyDeleteBronte - Plot driven
The overarching themes tackled highly controversial topics giving the book more weight and substance. For example they bring up the idea that men can also have emotions and how there should be no difference between mens’ emotions and womens’. This was a radical idea at the time (and still is) making Bronte a better writer.
Austen - Character driven
The character development in Jane Austen’s books is astonishing. She can depict a character through description and show their feelings through the narrator's voice so well done that when a character speaks, the reader can tell who’s talking without explicitly having to say who’s talking. This makes for a fluid dialogue and in depth character analysis.
The piano example was very vague and it wasn't convincing and the debater exaggerated the use of “must be” to a point that wasn't needed.
During this debate Two strategies were used. One (the Jane Austen supporter) praised the simplicity and profoundness of Jane Austen's novel, while the other focused on the deep themes and messages that are plainly used in Wuthering Heights. Although, the speaker for Bronte went last, the points of the Austen speaker were by no means forgotten. In fact, the humor used by the Austen speaker was unparalleled and it reminded me of the fun that I had while reading Pride and Prejudice. The emotion seen through the Austen speaker was a great strategy he used to capture his audience and to hold them in his attention, even throughout the Bronte speaker's presentation. I think this energy he brought to his argument was the thing that won him the argument.
ReplyDeleteI most definitely think that the Austen side of this debate won. It was much more persuasive than the Bronte side primarily because the points that he chose were spot on. Unlike the Bronte side the Austen side really engaged with the audience and had some humor in the passages they have shown. I might be a bit biased only because I love Pride and Prejudice and enjoyed reading the novel very much, but that does not change the fact that the Bronte side didn't have compelling arguments to portray how Bronte was a much better author than Jane Austen. I am not saying that she didn't have good points, she just didn't pick the best ones and the passages acted out were not as fun and captivating as the Austen side. The lady on the Bronte side also agreed with the Austen side and said that she couldn't beat that or something. That is not how you would refute someone's argument, it only weakens yours and gives that advantage to the other side. One thing that also differentiated between the Bronte side and the Austen side was how the lady defending Emily Bronte provided factual information rather than analyzing it and going into depth like the Austen side. To sum this up I one hundred percent agree with the Austen side and think that it has beat the Bronte side by A LOT.
ReplyDelete