Overview: We have read Chapters I – X, Book I of Jane Austen’s Pride
and Prejudice. Before we proceed, read
the following piece by Samuel K. Jennings (1771–1854). He was the first president of Asbury College,
a medical doctor, and Methodist preacher. “Advice to the Newly Married Lady”
was written as part of a compilation from the volume The Married Lady’s
Companion, Or Poor Man’s Friend which was meant to provide medical advice for
poor women in rural areas without access to a doctor. Maintaining a successful
relationship with a woman’s husband made up a significant portion of the series
alongside knowledge of reproduction and childcare.
Directions: Think
about the following questions as you read through this excerpt, and comment on the blog: How have the
roles of women and men changed over time? How have we defined the roles of men
and women? How have things stayed the same? Use direct examples from your experience, media, literature, etc.
"ADVICE TO THE NEWLY MARRIED LADY"
by Samuel K. Jennings (1808)
INTRODUCTION
Madam,
You have happily allied yourself to the man for whom you
leave your father’s house, for whom you cheerfully forsake all the world
besides. With him, as your protector and bosom friend, you promise yourself
many endearing pleasures. You perceive that “Innocence, candor, sincerity,
heroism and piety, express themselves with grace ineffable in every attitude,
in every feature of the man you love.” You are therefore highly concerned how
you may secure an equal share, and a permanent continuance of his affection and
esteem. On this point turns your future happiness or misery. Mutual love and
tenderness properly preserved, secures to you the greatest earthly blessing. In
proportion to the want or loss of these, you are miserable for life.
Although this consideration very much concerns your husband
as well as yourself, yet I must be permitted to assure you, that you are most
deeply interested. His engagements as a man, will necessarily keep up his
attention. He will have frequent occasion to mix with agreeable and interesting
company. His acquaintance will be extended, his amusements multiplied. He of
course will have an asylum, should home become tiresome or disagreeable. But
your house is your only refuge, your husband your only companion. Should he
abandon you, solitude, anxiety and tears, must be your unhappy lot. You cannot
fly for amusement to the race ground, to the chase, to the card table, or to
the tavern. You cannot look out for a gallant, to whom you may impart your
slighted love. You must either languish in bitterness, or learn to compose your
feelings, by stoical indifference.
PROPER CONDUCT OF THE WIFE TOWARDS HER HUSBAND
1. As it is your great wish and interest to enjoy much of
your husband’s company and conversation, it will be important to acquaint
yourself with his temper, his inclination, and his manner, that you may render
your house, your person and your disposition quite agreeable to him. By
observing with accuracy, and guarding your words and actions with prudence, you
may quickly succeed according to your wishes.
2. Here perhaps you ask, why so much pains necessary on my
part?... But under present circumstances, it is your interest to adapt yourself
to your husband, whatever may be his peculiarities. Again, nature has made man
the stronger, the consent of mankind has given him superiority over his wife,
his inclination is, to claim his natural and acquired rights…
3. In obedience then to this precept of the gospel [“Wives
submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord”], to the laws of
custom and of nature, you ought to cultivate a cheerful and happy submission.
WIFE OUGHT NOT TO APPEAR IN THE HUSBAND’S BUSINESS…
Men and women appear to best advantage each in their own
proper station… If it were to save appearances only, the husband at least to
seem to be the head. And therefore if you are determined to rule him, adopt the
following plan. “When any article of property is to be bought or sold, take him
aside, teach him the price to be given or received, point out the kind of
payment, the time to be paid, &c. &c. let the whole business be
properly adjusted, and then let the poor fellow go forward and seem to act like
a man.”
THE SURE WAY OF HAPPINESS IN THE MARRIED STATE
The great point for securing happiness in the married state,
is, to be mutually accommodating. The parties should look over one another’s
faults, and contemplate one another’s excellencies. We all have defects, and it
is much better to dwell on your own faults, than on those of your husband.
ONE WORD IN FAVOUR OF ECONOMY
Strict adherence to the conduct recommended in the former
chapters, is highly important. But I must inform you, that good economy and
judicious8 house-wifery must also be added, or your happiness can by no means
be complete. It affords a dismal prospect to a man who wishes to make a living,
to find a double and triple quantity of every article of family consumption
necessary to meet his wife’s regulations and management.
The only true differences between the roles of males and females exist in the reproductive process. Somehow, humanity has neglected that for the last few millennia. In most cases, the man would go out and work and have fun, leaving his wife at home with the children. It was common to talk of a Princess in a sticky situation, and a Prince on his way to rescue her. But after thousands of years, feminism is on the rise. But this isn't a threat to men's rights. Equality is the intended result. Stay-at-home mothers are still a thing, but in some households, the woman goes to work and her husband stays at home with the children. And then there are the couples who both go to work. The story line I mentioned earlier is still used, but there are alternatives. The Princess may break loose automatically, or perhaps the Prince is in trouble for a change.
ReplyDeleteIt's the 21st century C. E. Our Hero-Heroine and God-Goddess ratios should be as good as balanced already. By the way, isn't it ironic that a man wrote the passage above?
DeleteI agree with you. Changing the narrative is important in changing the mindset of people.
DeleteYou have a very good understanding of how unfair it is that women are being treated differently because of their reproductive/hormonal differences. I agree with you completely!
DeleteLadies and Gentlemen, we may be moving in that direction, but we still have a long way to go.
DeleteHow have the roles of women and men changed over time?
ReplyDeleteBack in 1808 it seems the roles of women were to be pleasing to the men that they married and to have their lives revolve around the man and raising children. The roles of men were to provide for their families and to be the advocate for their families. Nowadays (as Owen mentioned earlier) sometimes the roles of men and women (of old) are completely flipped or split straight down the middle, however there are many instances still of families with stay-at-home mom's. In the last 210 years the roles of men and women have definitely changed, and there are no set roles for either gender (aside from reproductively).
How have we defined the roles of men and women?
For our society and most Western-European societies, the originators of those societies and those in power looked at the Christian Bible and made their own interpretations, which may not be 100% accurate based upon the fact that it was translated from either Hebrew to Greek to Latin to (insert country's main language here), or Greek to Latin to (insert country's main language here).
How have things stayed the same?
Stay-at-home mom's that have a working husband are still a thing. For the most part, men still ask out women. Apart from that I can't think of anything that has survived those 210 years.
There are a lot more than homemakers and pursuer tendencies that survived these 210 years. It's a lot of things that we don't even notice and have just become accustomed to because "that's the way its always been."
DeleteWomen, for the most part, are still expected to cook and clean. In addition, there are also some jobs that are gender specific in our society. It is also preconceived that men are stronger than women by "nature." Another notion is that men are expected to do all the work, such as explained in the "Husband's Business" section.
A lot has survived these 210, and in my opinion, it's so engrained in our minds as normal, which makes it hard to ignore the changes and easy to ignore what it's always been.
I also think that you can look at the new inequalities that we have developed (ex: the pink tax), even if they aren't the same injustices they still affect women negatively.
DeleteChloe Hanrahan ^^^
DeleteI did say I can't *think* of any other examples, I was not saying that they do not exist, I was saying that if there were any other examples, I did not remember/ think of them at the time of writing this.
DeleteThe roles of men and women have changed in the sense that they are not specifically classified or prejudiced into a particular role today. Traditionally, it was believed that men were superior to women and that they must submit completely to their husband’s needs and put their own aside. If a woman questioned her position, she was expected to remember that she must “ adapt… to [her] husband,” because men were naturally the dominant ones. I feel that even though these notions seem outdated, they are still present in our society and often become our preconceived prejudices derived from media and literature. Men often did the outside work, made the money for the family, while the women did the housework, cooked, and cleaned. As seen in Pride and Prejudice, Miss Caroline Bingley explains what an “accomplished woman” is, but even Mr. Darcy seems to agree that the traditional (normal for the time) accomplishments did not match to date- meaning things were changing. While this model still exists today, it has been transformed to not make this the standard and to allow equality. I believe we have not reached complete equality of men and women, but I think it should not be reached at the expense of the other gender. One should not overpower the other, but neither should completely submiss. I think we’re close to reaching this goal, but some believe that equality has already been reached.
ReplyDeleteThe modern-day word seems to have changed slightly from the 1800s. Nowadays, the "boss" of most households is typically the mother.
DeleteI also just want to add to my statement that it's not to say men aren't subjected to this prejudiced too that they are "forced" to play this role and women the same. But I think as a whole we all have a long way to go, also acknowledging the fact that we've made it fairly far.
DeleteAccustomed gender roles have changed over time in that females who were once limited to only doing house chores as well as caregiving are taking a role in society where they are developing into bosses and having the power to hold influential positions. This is because of the advanced education that was introduced on the part of women. Long ago women were ordered to please their husbands, and were expected to to always stay home while their husbands were either working or out and having fun. The father demanded obedience and recognition from not just the mother, but their children as well. Currently some mothers tend to leave their children with their husbands for work purposes or otherwise. This is quite different than how it used to be. Some men nowadays also complete household work, and cook if they are more preferably better at it. Some women also decide to not have kids if they want to focus more on their career choice. Men and women now both equally share the responsibilties around the house, but there are some women that cook and clean, while their husbands take off to work.
ReplyDeleteThese examples of gender roles show up in the novel Pride and Prejudice. In this novel women were more sternly meant to marry rather than focus on their education. “...marriage had always been her object; it was the only honorable provision for well-educated you women of small fortune…” (83). In this quote Charlotte shows how she does not believe in love like Elizabeth does, and was more concerned about finding a good husband with money, and an acceptable home.
I agree with your statement about how now the husband may take care of the children while the wife goes to work. This was true for my house for the first 8 years of my life, and I can verify that it is no different than being raised by a mother.
DeleteChloe Hanrahan
ReplyDeleteMen and women have always been separated by their gender unjustly. It has been assumed since the beginning of western civilization that a women needs to be protect and covered up; the added hardship of religious scriptures that cement these roles has been a reason people haven’t changed their outlook. It is known now as the traditional view now“man works and women takes care of home and children, and the women takes the man’s last name”, but during the Pride and Prejudice time it was the norm. For a women to work and a man to stay home was out of the question, women couldn’t even have their own money or home (they got allowances like children). We as a people have subjected our women to a prejudice that is now ingrained in our modern society: for instance we call ourselves mankind. Women are no less than men, and never have been, but with the hundreds of years of living as second class citizens it’s hard to see the light out. We live in a modern society where we understand the phrase “‘Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord’” is a disgusting phrase because marriage shouldn’t be about submission. Men and women like to look back to the past and say “oh I wish I could live in this time period”, but honestly if you’re not a white, cis man you don’t want to go back to any time in western civilization. But that is not to say women are internally equal; we do have a wage gap, our necessities (tampons and birth, birth control) are taxed when unnecessary male products aren’t, there is a “pink tax”. We as a people try to overlook this and say we are equals, but we aren’t -- yet.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming that the "unnecessary male product" you are referring to is Viagra. Viagra is a prescription medication and those aren't taxed for almost all of America. Birth control pills also need a prescription. Viagra is also used to treat high blood pressure in lungs.
DeleteWhile I understand where you're coming from Chloe, I think some people like sharing a name. (I know I'm a man so I don't really know but still) I also think that today, in general, women are treated with much of the same respect men get in most situations. Maybe I'm being to optimistic, but I think America is doing pretty darn well in terms on equality for women.
Delete(also abstinence is free)
Disclaimer: I am a Christian.
DeleteI don't like the phrase in the Bible "submit to your husbands" any more than you do, what I don't like even more is the often overlooked bit about what husbands are required to do for their wives, which includes sacrificing their life in case of danger to save their wife and children. If you reply to this doing anything but agreeing with me and my anger, this is a clear example of a double standard.
I had a feeling that somehow, men also have limited rights according to these traditions.
DeleteAfter reading this excerpt from Samuel K. Jennings, I feel that we've come a long way from this kind of lifestyle where the man is the intelligent, hard-working one and the woman's entire world revolves around her home and husband, and in many ways we have. However, we still have a long way to go. If someone were to publish their ideas similar to Jennings in todays society, it would most definitely receive major backlash, but that is not saying that everybody will disagree with that way of thinking. The roles of men and women have improved, allowing women the right to vote and work any job they are fit for, and men to play the "stay-at-home" figure. With that being said, in todays society when people hear a certain title, for example police officer, many people imagine a male.
ReplyDeleteYou are totally right when you mentioned how when people think of a police officer (for example) they think of a male. I too am guilty of thinking of a male when this comes to mind. It is unfortunate but I do think that in the future this will change. For example when I think of a dentist I think of a male and female dentist because I have had both as dentists, so overtime when more females become cops more people will associate the job of a police officer with a woman.
DeleteI feel a similar way about doctors because I have grow up with both in my life and that is a real improvement from the past where women were only though of as nurse(still stigma on male nurses).
DeleteIt's incredible that when you have the role model you envision that job with that sex. It's what makes the necessity to have both male and female representatives (as well as people who identify otherwise, since children will understand better when they have someone similar right in front of them).
DeleteGender has developed (in Europe at least) from superior-inferior to a much more equal status. Women before had to morph into whatever suited her husband's fancy, to "render your house, your person and your disposition quite agreeable to him." Not only having to change herself, a woman also had to submit, as if they were an animal of some sort. Though it is acknowledged that sometimes the woman was indeed the intellectual, she still had to "teach him... and then let the poor fellow go forward and seem to act like a man." Even if she is the puppet master, she still must hide behind the curtain in the kitchen. Luckily, times have improved women's social standing and concede to equality in mind and spirit (though some prejudices are still held and women are seen as incapable in some other parts of the world and/or by other people of ignorance or narrow-mindedness). Men before were to work and be pampered somewhat by their wives. The wife would go to great lengths just to please the husband. They could go where a woman could not, reach education and opportunities a woman was held back from, and even if they were unable to do things themselves, a woman would tell them what to do and they would benefit from this. Nowadays men usually recognize that women are of equal status and compete on the same level. Though there are still inequalities because of older beliefs, overall the conditions are exponentially better.
ReplyDeleteSome clichés in regard to the roles of men would be the breadwinner, the boss, the financial superior, the physical superior, the intellectual superior. As for women, the cook, the homemaker, the trophy, and the empty-headed. It's easy to tell that the roles men were formerly known to be are obviously not applicable to all but they are the more "noble." We know nowadays this is untrue. Many chefs (like on Chopped or something) are men (and this does not mean there are not plenty of female chefs as well cause there are) defeating the cook cliché. And there are many female teachers, proving that many women are at the intellectual level needed to teach the future generations.
There are still stereotypes and traditions that continue to this day. Men are still the ones who "propose" and they are scorned often for wearing skirts or dresses or certain colors (pink, violet, etc.). Girls are still expected to play with dolls and wear these colors boys cannot. Girls have long hair. There are many things that still haven't changed on both sides that could really be given a wake up call. This is the 21st century. This is the time of change.
In "Pride and Prejudice" by Jane Austen, these roles are challenged. The Bingley sisters could not believe that Elizabeth had walked miles in the mud to see her sister (which is quite offensive to their own character seeing as they are sisters and would not do that for each other (another kind of FOIL perhaps)) and were disgusted by "her hair so untidy, so blowsy... her petticoat, six inches deep in mud" (23). Though this is also influenced by class difference, it is also about how a woman could possibly do such a thing, which makes her even lower class in their minds. They are also challenged by Mrs. Bennet. Despite the fact that a woman submitted and changed for their husband, Mrs. Bennet continues to be herself (I would assume if not maybe a little toned down) and pesters Mr. Bennet to see Mr. Bingley when he first arrives, and when he dodges and makes no agreements, she claims profusely "'how can you abuse your own children in such a way? You take delight in vexing me. You have no compassion on my poor nerves'" (2). She does not submit herself, pesters him to no end so that she may get what she wants. This stubbornness was frowned upon by Mr. Samuel K. Jennings in his work, "ADVICE TO THE NEWLY MARRIED LADY." Yet it happens, because Austen wanted to show a new perspective to the people of her time, that they may see that everything is not as it seems.
sorry mine's long i couldn't stop writing
DeleteThere’s no problem in writing something long, as long as it’s genuine it’s okay.
DeleteI think that you were very spot on with you response to the questions. And I also do think that Jane Austen didn’t right Pride and Prejudice on coincidence and really challenged the way people thought about the gender roles back in the day. But about men being more “noble”, I wonder if being more “noble” means to know your place in the system and take that title to your advantage or not knowing the system, but yet taking advantage of it.
I agree completely with what you're saying. We have come a long way, but there are still obstacles left. I like the examples you gave.
DeleteI agree with a lot in this post. Not to make this about men, but I do like how you took stereotypes from both sides and used it to cut down on these misconceptions to show the equality of the genders. Very good points!
DeleteI agree a lot on what you said in the first paragraph and the cliches you talked about. I also loved the examples you used from outside this excerpt
DeleteGender roles have certainly changed over the course of the past 200 years. This change has come about due to the recognization that women can also help the society advance and discover new ideas. This recognization has then led to, as Talah stated, education for females which is the key factor that allows women to get jobs and play a more important role in society. It is the clear factor that was the difference between men and women back in the 1800s. This difference was represented in "Pride and Prejudice". Here, Elizabeth represented the new age of women, which was a revolutionary idea at the time, as she read books and was intelligent, albeit different from other women in the society, as noted by Mr. Darcy who commented on "the improvement of her mind by extensive reading" (26). She contrasts significantly with Mrs. Hurst and Miss Bingley who make fun of her and act like the traditional women at the time. Additionally, nowadays, equality is present in all households. In fact, if there is any inequality, it's the women who has more power. The "boss" of the household are typically women as they make many family decisions. Furthermore, if you take a look a divorces, most children end up going with their mother rather than their father. This shows how far the society has advanced as men used to hold all of this power, but now it has been handed over to women. Although some things have remained the same. Women still tend to do more house chores than men, but this duty has begun to be shared throughout the family among the children as well.
ReplyDeleteIt is greatly true that females have gained more authority in their household(s). Though it's still disappointing that they're still the ones that have to do the majority of the cooking and cleaning in the house; that's why jobs such as house cleaners are mainly females since the majority of the female population have been raised in an environment where they have to know how to clean and cook. Though, it isn't bad to know how to clean and cook, it's just that that responsibility is pushed towards females and rarely males.
DeleteThe main difference that is portrayed between men and women is the belief that men are superior to women, which applied for a majority of history. Even today there are still instances in which women don’t get the same treatment as men, like job wages. Throughout history, women have been seen as the one who is submissive to the men, and their main jobs comprised of housekeeping and taking care of the children, while the man is seen as doing the “harder” labor including various jobs, and actual hard labor. This stigma can be seen from Advice to the Newly Married Lady when it is stated that a woman’s happiness comes from pleasing the man, which can only sometimes be true, but more often than not, it isn’t true.
ReplyDeleteThe roles of men and women have changed drastically in the past 210 years. Sometimes I try to think about history from the perspective of the past. They had completely different ideas about life than we do. In the 1800s married women had to either “languish in bitterness, or learn to compose your feelings, by stoical indifference.” Today women can leave whenever they want really. They don’t have to stick around and suffer with a bad partner. Men are no longer considered “[superior] over [their] wife”.
ReplyDeleteThe way we define the roles of men and women is based a lot on our society's definition of masculinity. We often use media and cultural norms to define gender roles. Women used to be expected to be submissive in almost every aspect of life. “Again, nature has made man the stronger, the consent of mankind has given him superiority over his wife, his inclination is, to claim his natural and acquired rights…” Natural being the keyword here because it insinuates that men are naturally more superior or better than women. We generally don't think that way anymore.
A lot of things have definitely stayed the same. People still need to make certain compromises in relationships. It is important to stay “mutually accommodating” in a marriage/relationship and being able to overlook imperfections, especially if you love that person. Men are still expected to follow certain dating rules, like paying for the meal or activity.
Great points. It is important that we look back on how drastically different the past was to today. Interesting argument when you use the subject of promise in the last paragraph, I think it is a very realistic and human discussion to have.
DeleteHow have the roles of women and men changed over time? How have we defined the roles of men and women? How have things stayed the same? Use direct examples from your experience, media, literature, etc.
ReplyDeleteI believe that all animals created separate roles for men and women in order to go about their everyday lives. For humans it was that men went out to provide for the family and that the women took care of the children and stayed home to make sure everything is acceptable for the husband. However, times have changed and the roles of men and women have as well. Women are now in positions of power, own businesses, and are able to survive and provide without a husband, something that could never happen just a century ago. I think women have always been equal to men, because they are both capable of the same achievements. Some men knew of this and treated women's thoughts more seriously, like the Spartans in Greece thousands of years ago. Women are still in fact getting treated below men, more noticeably in other countries where there is not a lot of opportunity for them. Even in the US, we have problems such as the wage gap, education, opportunity, etc for women. I can see how this all relates to the book Pride and Prejudice because of how men viewed women back when women had almost no rights at all. There are many obstacles left for women in the approach to gender equality, but we are on the right track.
In the earlier years of humanity’s existence, the physical capabilities of an individual was all that really mattered. Males on average are stronger than their female counterparts so they were expected to do the manual labor such as hunting. Females were the ones giving birth and breastfeeding the babies so they took on the domestic roles. This lead to a snowball effect where men were exposed to more opportunities for growth when they ventured away from home. In the 19th century the men were still the ones providing for the family and the ones with money. This can be clearly seen in the Bennet family where the mother is trying to find a husband for the sisters since that was there only hope for a good future. The advice provided in the passage may appear wrong but it was good for the era as males played the majority role. For more recent years, gender expectations has been revamped greatly. Education for females improved drastically and thus allowed for women to work skilled jobs. The more active contribution to society lets gain women respect. Women now have the potential to earn enough money for the male to become the one to stay at home. This shift is still happening so the expectations have not changed completely yet. One thing that won’t change is the role of women to raise infants since males don’t have the biological capability to feed the baby.
ReplyDeleteIt’s true that men can’t biologically feed infants they way women are naturally capable to do, but men can also take care of children just like a mother takes care of her children.
DeleteOver time the roles of men and women of changed greatly. In the past, men were the ones who did all of the business and communication of the household. They were the economic backbone of the family and it was their duty to make sure their families could live comfortably. The women were expected to do a lot of the behind the scenes work such as cleaning the house, cooking all of the meals, and raising the children. The jobs of the women were very difficult but it was never brought up because that is what they were expected to do back then. However nowadays, things aren’t exactly so in countries such as America. Men are able to live their lives doing work that the women did and vice versa. While there are barriers blocking what men and women are allowed to do. They aren’t as strict as they were back then especially for the women. While men are still considered to be the ones doing all of the dirty work outside of the house, women are now able to take on that responsibility. While things have improved very greatly, there is still much work left to do. As women have been getting more and more involved in society, they have been getting closer and closer to being equal with men. One of my teachers from my old school told my class that his mom experienced this firsthand. She was a teacher at her school, but was never given equal pay at her job. She had a masters (or doctorate I don’t completely remember) in the education and still made significantly less compared to a man who just made the job requirements. While gender equality isn’t yet true, the differences have been brought down greatly since previous times.
ReplyDeleteNikita Orbits
I think as a society living in 2018, I feel like the roles of women and men have changed tremendously, especially since social media, the internet, and the news have impacted us to have our own say in what we want as a society (ex: making our own choices and stating our own opinions). When we look back in time, men were the only ones that had a say in anything and were respected for any decision that was made, whereas if a women were to go against the ideas of what a women should be, she would be shunned/looked down upon by society, not being taken seriously when wanting to have any liberty of action, and as a result, she would’ve received severe consequences. Like when we talk about marriage, they say that a woman must “adapt [herself] to [her] husband, whatever may be his peculiarities” and that “nature has made man the stronger, the consent of mankind has given him superiority over his wife,” which isn't the case. Regardless if the woman is married or not, she should be able to make her choices and not always live her life by what her father or husband tell her what and what not to do as a woman. Of course, there are some countries and regions that still keep these ideologies and traditions intact, but that shouldn’t stop them from challenging those ideas. As a female living in a country where I’m able to express my opinions and free to be who I am, I’m grateful everyday that those opportunities are opened up to me and many other women who deserve the same respect and rights as men do. Even though we are all about not female empowerment, but those who were originally treated differently from back then because of their differences (race, sexuality, nationality, physically or mentally disabled), to be their own voices and change the way we are viewed in our society.
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I think we kind of take it for grated how lucky are to live in a place where we as women can express are voices.
DeleteI don't think we should call it luck. I think it's great everyone can speak their own minds, but that ability isn't lucky it should be normal. The only reason we call ourselves lucky for that is because for so long women haven't had that right, and in certain places some still don't.
DeleteChloe Hanrahan
It is interesting because Elizabeth tends to have more interesting conversations with others because she speaks her mind. Caroline Bingley on the other hand has conversations that are not as meaningful. For example in chapter 10 she goes up to Darcy and talks about how lovely his letters are, and how long they are, etc. meanwhile Elizabeth has conversations with Darcy about persuasion and there conversation/argument ends up going on for a long time. This shows that Elizabeth is unlike other woman in her society because she is not afraid to go against a mans oppinion.
DeleteIn the past, the woman's job was take care of the kids and moreover take care of the household. While men went hunting or to their jobs to make money for the family and protected the family. Now the roles of men and women are not so defined. women can be the breadwinners of the family while men can take care of the household. they're still this sort of stereotype imbedded by the culture around us and how we grew up.
ReplyDeleteIt is very different in Asian countries though. My mother worked in Japan, where they're kind of stuck in the 60 on equality, for example when a woman gets pregnant they're expected to quit. There's very few women managers because of that and make it to the manager or chairman or VP role is very hard. Women are expected take care of the kids and the husband because The husband is supposed to be the breadwinner. In Pride and Prejudice the women were groomed to be good wives or good marriage material for men and intelligence was needed for just to have conversations with men and to be able to entertain them so even if women were educated, they were educated for the role of a wife and to support their husbands like it said in the Jennings book about how should a wife act. That they need to be submissive and to take care of the husband and the children before themselves. They said “in obedience then to this precept of the gospel [“Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord”], to the laws of custom and of nature, you ought to cultivate a cheerful and happy submission.”. While Elizabeth is a very bold and outspoken woman, Jane is more innocent submissive. I think she fits better the definition of what Jennings wants a woman to be.
So what message do you think Jane Austen is communicating through the characterization of Elizabeth and Jane?
DeleteI agree very much so that Asian countries put caretaking mostly on the mother if not entirely. It's an outdated practice but I have seen change happening where the men are taking care of the children while the women work or both parties working even after having kids. Times have been slow but they are still changing nonetheless.
DeleteIn the past, the role of women had generally been to take care of the home and family. Women were supposed to live simply to please their husbands or other men that were in their lives while the main role of men was to provide for the family. There was also a general belief that “nature [had] made man the stronger, [and] the consent of mankind [had] given him superiority over his wife,” as stated in Advice to the Newly Married Lady. However, today the roles have changed significantly. Women now have the ability to choose what they would like to do in their lives, i.e. stay at home to take care of the family or instead pursue a career. Men generally have similar roles as they in the past, since most choose to go to work, rather than stay at home. But both now can split the responsibility of providing for the family as well as taking care of it. We now tend to not define the roles of men and women, instead letting people make their own choices about the role they wish to play. While we, as a society, are still working towards equality between men and women, there has been significant advancement mostly due to women now having the ability to choose what they want to do. Wage gaps and decreased opportunities for women do still exist, but they have slowly diminishing over time.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Pride and Prejudice, the novel takes place in the time that women had a defined roll of staying in the home, taking care of the home and family, and adapting to make their husbands happy. Yet Elizabeth challenges that concept, instead not particularly wanting marry whatsoever since she would rather do the things she enjoys, than what her husband enjoys. She does not wish to change for someone else, preferring to remain how she is.
Considering the fact that Elizabeth is different from others, specifically women, in the society, what do you think this foreshadows?
DeleteThe roles of men and woman have changed greatly over time. Based on Samuel K. Jennings piece, a woman's role back then was to keep the household in order and to look "pretty". They also had to make their husbands look good and to comply to their husband at all times. Woman were to stay in the house, unless there was a ball to attend, and to learn little things like sewing and playing an instrument. Nowadays, woman have way more freedom and can do things that only men were allowed to do back in the time that Samuel K. Jennings wrote his piece. Woman can work if they choose to and they can go out of the house whenever they want. There is more equality between men and woman. Some things still remain the same though. For example woman unfortunately get paid less for jobs. Also a lot of woman are still stay at home moms. My mom is actually a stay at home mom. She volunteers a lot but she doesn't work. However she chooses to be a stay at home mom, she isn't forced to do this like all woman were in the past. However I feel like there is still the stereotype that woman are better at taking care of the kids, which I don't think is true. I know that there are many stay at home dads, proving this stereotype wrong, in fact my uncle is a stay at home dad and his wife works. I think many people find this weird but I think it is a good example of how male and female roles are changing. In the novel Pride and Prejudice Elizabeth is a character who doesn't really follow the typical woman standards of her time. She doesn't care what others think of her and speaks her mind. She will point out a mans faults and also refuses to submit to a man (like Darcy). Darcy even asks to dance with Elizabeth and Elizabeth says, politely, no. Most woman in her day would say yes to a man like Darcy because it is what a woman "should" do when a man asks to dance, and Darcy is rich so most woman would want to dance with a man as rich as himself. Elizabeth, though, wants to dance with someone not based on their money but based on their character and if she finds happiness with them. We can see a contrast between her and most woman of her time from her friend Charlotte's quote "Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance"(14). Elizabeth obviously does not believe in this and she wants happiness in her marriage. As we can see Elizabeth goes against the standards of her time and I think we will see much more of this from her as we continue to read.
ReplyDeleteI agree that there are a lot of stay at home dads and I feel being a stay at home dad is looked at as weird in general by people even though it shouldn't be.
DeleteI agree with you in that gender roles have progressively changed and are more equal, and the fact that there are still some things that haven't changed, for example some moms still stay home with their children, while the father goes out and work.
DeleteOver time, women have continuously progressed towards equality, although they are yet to reach it, which is shown in the wage gap. Women can now deal with their own affairs, and don't need a man to speak for them. We used to always define men as more powerful, and bread winners, but now women are getting more and more equality. There are a lot of women who own business's, and an example of there being more equality is that my mom makes twice as much as my dad. Things have stayed the same in the regard of men making more then women. This is because we still have a wage gap, and hopefully one that can be eliminated. We need to continuously work as a community towards total equality, and although its not possible, the only way to get close is to work towards it.
ReplyDeleteThe roles men and women play are constantly being defined, but it seems married couples are working toward more equality. When my grandmother raised my Dad she said my grandfather never once changed a diaper, but now men are much more involved in raising kids. My dad changed hundreds of diapers!
ReplyDeleteMy mother said she was raised in the time when “men make the money and women make the beds.” That’s probably not as true today but in Andover it is- men are more likely to be the breadwinners while the women take care of the children.
In my own house, when my dad got the option to work from home, my mom started working full-time again. My dad started calling himself the ‘stay at home dad’. Not to be mean, it’s just that in addition to his job, he‘s doing what society thinks is a woman’s job- like taking me and my sister to doctor and dentist appointments and making dinner for the family.
I don’t think much has stayed the same since the time of Pride and Prejudice. Back then women didn't get to make any choices including whom they marry and where they live. They relied on the men to make their choices. Today’s changing economy has made it necessary for women to work and be independent.
Women (and LGBTQ) encourage each other to make money and be heard (or lean in like my Mom tells us), especially when it comes to equal rights. I just heard on the radio that 35 years ago, there were only two female senators, now there are 23. That progress might be causing even more advancements for women.
Colby Stack
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteEthan Gassé
ReplyDeleteThe roles of women have changed drastically in the last 2 centuries! Men and women are much more even than we were back then. Women these days can have a job (more importantly a career), they can support themselves without a husband, they can vote, and can do anything a man can do without the legitimate setbacks of society. Unfortunately, men and women are not totally equal. There is still a bias in society of a woman's place, but these are all debunked by the masked man fallacy. In the end, a woman's place in society has changed by the way she can make her own decisions, vote for what she wants, have her own career/occupation and own her own property. Unfortunately, some things that haven't changed are a few outlooks on strong women created by others. These outlooks claim such things as "A woman cannot hold office because she is too emotional", or "A woman cannot be in the military because she is not as strong as a man", but as I stated earlier these are debunked as fallacies and hold no true ground in an intellectual conversation. A shaky ground in this argument is a topic such as what women can do to their bodies. Things like Roe vs Wade gave way to women making decisions about abortion for themselves, but with such a touchy topic men had to put in their own decision to block out what women think. I do not believe it is my decision to tell a woman what to do with her body because I cannot relate to what it means to be a woman, and I think for that I have no say in what happens for them. That is *briefly* how the roles of women have changed over the past 2 or so centuries.
I agree with your opinion on abortion and I agree that we have come a long way legally, but biases still exist.
DeleteThroughout time, genders roles were usually defined as: men do the hard work outside the house and women do the cooking, cleaning, etc. This "mold" (for lack of a better word) is still evident in today's time, but we've thankfully been breaking this mold as time goes on. Women are starting to become equal to men (as they should be). They can now vote, chose who to marry and where to live, and do so much more now than they could before.
ReplyDeleteIn my own personal experience with my family, my mother is always equal to my father and they both work outside of the house. However, my mother is usually the one who cooks and cleans, but she is content with doing this and sometimes she'll ask for help from my dad, me or my brothers, and we will help her.
In Pride and Prejudice, Mr. Bennett is seemingly the only one in the family who works (I believe he is seen tending to ledgers in the movie and it is stated in the novel that he is). It is also interesting to see that even after being married 20 years, Mrs. Bennett has not "adapted [herself to her] husband" as she should have according to Samuel K. Jennings. This is evident at the very beginning where Mr. Bennett is making humerus and sarcastic jokes about Mrs. Bennett and her nerves and she still doesn't realize that they're jokes, even after 20 years.
My family is very similar to your family. But my Dad sometimes cooks the meals too, typically on the weekends.
DeleteI think that the role of men and women has definitely improved from what it was in the past. I feel women now have more freedom as to what they want to make of themselves. Unlike before their role is less revolved around care taking and such and they have the freedom in most cases to do other things. As for men their roles have also changed. Unlike before they do not have to be the primary money makers and can instead stay at home and take care of children and such. I still think the values from the past where men should be working is still the norm that people believe. I think that strides are being made to improve the equality between men and women regarding what they do although it may not be moving the fastest.
ReplyDeleteIn my house, my mom works more hours then my dad and my dad does all the cooking, cleaning, and shopping. This goes against the idea that the woman should do all the work in the house, not have a job, and take care of the kids. My mom makes most of the major decisions in the house and my dad agrees with her decisions. My parents have taught me that I can be an independent woman no matter what anyone says, as long as I work hard enough. Im happy that I live in the family that I do because I have an aunt that has her own company that she worked hard and continues to work hard for. I also have a close friend who's mom is a single parent and she has her own company as well. I grew up around strong hard working woman who have minds of their own. I do believe that woman have come a long way but we are still far from being equal. There is still a wage gap and although I know that this is the most common argument when talking about gender equality, I believe that it is the most important. It is unfair that I, as a hard working woman, have to be paid less because of my gender. Also, continuing Chloe's argument on the Pink Tax, it is wrong that I have to pay more for a product just because the box has it labeled for woman. Most of the time I don't have the option of not buying a certain product, its not a want its a need. But why do they want woman to pay more for products when they are getting paid less? To wrap it up, I do believe that the roles of woman and men are becoming more equal, but the way that each gender is treated is far from the same.
ReplyDeleteI think you're totally right. We see women and men becoming somewhat equal in the eyes of the law, but in how society actually views each gender we are far from equal.
DeleteI believe things have definitely changed. In our society I don't think there are distinct roles, I especially don't think there are distinct roles tied to genders. One thing that has stayed the same are wages compared between men and women. Men, to this day, make distinctly more money than women who are working the same job. I think that media has also evolved a lot. Movies used to just have a male protagonist. Now there are movies with female protagonists and this can be quite effective when it is not forced.
ReplyDeleteI like the movie example you used. I agree that it provides more emphasis on the fact that things have changed.
DeleteKey phrase is "when it is not forced". I feel like production companies try to appeal to an audience that wants a strong female character, so the writers end up creating a boring character. The process for writing these characters shouldn't be different because of the gender. Do you agree?
DeleteI don't believe it was forced in the new Ghostbusters. I think they did a good job.
DeleteThe roles of women used to be defined. Defined by men and society so much that the women of the time soon became to believe what they were being told their roles were. Their main role was to obey their husband and to always allow him to be the successful and the happy one in the relationship. Never mind the feelings of the women, the men must always remain happy in order to guarantee a happy life, because the men had control. This role of women as being second to me has changed drastically since the 1800s. Women now stand besides their husbands not behind them and we now have working mothers, women athletes and women that have men working under their command in the workplace. However, I think the most important change that we have made to society involving the roles of women is that now, young girls are encouraged to be anything they want to be. They are not shackled by the empty goals of what a woman should want or do. They are encouraged to persue their passions and are encouraged to succeed. However, I do think that some things have stayed the same, or appear similar to roles of women in the 1800s. I can still see men today that feel they have a predestined role and a burden to their family. The burden to provide for their family seems to be luring over men once they start a family and anything that a woman provides to help the family is simply "extra" and was not expected of her. Also, still often don't receive the same amount of money as a man does working the same job. All in all, I think that what allowed these roles of women to develop in the first place was the silence of women. Early in the 1800s, most women accepted these roles. However, some women began to challenge these roles like Jane Austin in the way that she introduced Elizabeth Bennett(a character to believes a women's mind and character should be appreciated in any relationship. Today we have lots of women speaking out for what they believe In. So I think our gender roles will not stay concrete. They will remain flexible and keep improving until we can all stand besides each other with no pressures, obligations, or roles that are specialized to gender over the other.
ReplyDeleteWonderful closing statement! I like the fact that you mentioned the wage gap here, which is a rational argument to be made.
Delete